Geez 282 Posted November 21, 2015 Grazie! Would you like to partecipate too ? It' s not too late and I would be very happy to add your cultivars to the list . I sent my list. I hope that understood the instruction correctly. Overall the list looks great!And I noticed that in the list there is a cultivar, about which I recently wrote - PI 260490. It recorded as Capsicum chinense. May I know who grew it and what are the results? How many plants did you grow about this variety ? Same characters in all plants ? I had three plants CAP 206. And all were absolutely identical. One plant will winter in the house. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rapace 9,624 Posted November 21, 2015 Grazie! I sent my list. I hope that understood the instruction correctly. Overall the list looks great! And I noticed that in the list there is a cultivar, about which I recently wrote - PI 260490. It recorded as Capsicum chinense. May I know who grew it and what are the results? I had three plants CAP 206. And all were absolutely identical. One plant will winter in the house. Thanks for sending your list ! PI 260490 classification seems debatable. According to some sources ( http://www.thechileman.org ) it is classified as Capsicum.chinense According to other sources ( www.semillas.de ) it is classified as Capsicum frutescens The variety is in the global list, but nobody in pepperfriends grew it in last three seasons - the statistics started in 2013 (we count a lot on you for the correct identification ! ). I can make some additional considerations: 1. PI 260490 you pictured and described (as I already said) according to my opinion has features for at least three species: A) Capsicum chinense: Strongly marked constriction ring Capsicum frutescens: greenish tips on the petals C) Capsicum annuum: only one pod per node 2. If I look to the picture that Semillas has on its side..... pods don't show a clear constriction ring..... maybe from the original seeds 2 different lines have been developed (?)... 3. On the Chileman database (which classifies it as Capsicum chinense) there is no description.... but there is a photo by Allen Boatman (not so clear and detailed unfortunately). Allen Boatman is considered a "pepper guru" with a huge collection of pepper seeds... I guess he agreed on that classification. Finally... my doubts remains...... and I continue to think that probably it's a mixtures of genes of different (cultivated) species...... What is the source of your seeds ? And.... I think this is a very interesting variety to be cultivated..... on next year. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rapace 9,624 Posted November 21, 2015 Thank you very much! You may be right about that. Indeed, the fruits were not soft, as is typical of C.frutescens. Although another C.frutescens, Lotah Bih, produced the fruits that were not soft too. Maybe I had bad cultivation conditions. I'm not satisfied with this plant this year. The productivity was very low, only a few fruits and I didn't try out them. Will leave in the second year for further study. About Lotah Bih I cultivated it last year. I can confirm that pods are not so soft as the other Capsicum frutescens, but all the other characters I observed were of typical Capsicum frutescens specie. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Geez 282 Posted November 22, 2015 What is the source of your seeds ? The source of seeds is semillas.de. I try every year to plant new varieties, and always try to include in the list several less famous cultivars. Therefore when Peter offered these cultivars, I couldn't pass by. Furthermore my interest was warmed up by reading this article Unraveling the Species Dilemma in Capsicum frutescens and C. chinense (Solanaceae): A Multiple Evidence Approach Using Morphology, Molecular Analysis, and Sexual Compatibility . My knowledge is not enough for a complete understanding of this article, I'm not a biologist, but I want to understand more. From this article I realized that some varieties have characteristics typical for C. chinense and for C. frutescens... In my experience I have often seen that many C. chinense have a greenish flower. For example 7pot Bubblegum. But the predominance of other characteristics typical for C. chinense leaves no doubt as to species identification. From the C. frutescens specie my experience is limited only Tabasco that has classical characteristics. In my opinion, many famous varieties are interspecific hybrids. But nevertheless, we attribute them to one or another species. And, in the end, my cultivars should also be identified despite all the difficulties... I hope so. To date, I have no reason to doubt the quality of seeds. And I have no reason to challenge any conclusion. And at the same time.... everyone makes mistakes... do not mistaken only one who does anything. My plant PI 260490 has some similarities with the photo thechileman.org and with photo semillas.de. And if you review photos on the ars-grin, it seems that two types of fruits are represented. Wide fruits have an constriction ring and thin (my type) the fruits don't have it photo maybe from the original seeds 2 different lines have been developed (?)... Carlo , apparently you're right! Among other things... there is another fact. I have noticed that young plants (in the phase of 3-4 leaves) of C. chinense have a specific odor typical only for C. chinense. My plants PI 260490, CAP 205 and CAP 206 had no such odor. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rapace 9,624 Posted November 22, 2015 I took a look to the article.Very interesting (I didn't know it). I'm not a biologist too, but I'm very interested in this topic and in this season (take a look to my topic in "Coltivazioni 2015" if you're interested) I grew up two crosses (1 C.chinense X C.frutescens and 1 C.frutescens X C.chinense). I can tell you that F1 plants are in both cases very productive and that seeds are viable (they germinate in F2). There are well known varieties which are usually classified as C.chinense that are showing some "clear" C.frutescens characters (for exampe: Aribibi Gusano, Vanuatu). Moreover ... Superhot coming from Assam region in India are considered having some C.frutescens genes in their DNA (Bhut Jolokia, Naga Morich etc.). Anyway.... I'm not a biologist too.....but we have contacts with some (and one in particolar) world gurus in peppers genetic field...... let's see if we can understand something more. Thanks for reference to the article ! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Geez 282 Posted November 22, 2015 Very interesting (I didn't know it). I'm not a biologist too, but I'm very interested in this topic and in this season (take a look to my topic in "Coltivazioni 2015" if you're interested) I grew up two crosses (1 C.chinense X C.frutescens and 1 C.frutescens X C.chinense). I can tell you that F1 plants are in both cases very productive and that seeds are viable (they germinate in F2). Of course, this is very interesting. Any experience in this area is important, especially if the results showed high productivity of plants. I had several experiments with hybridization in this year. The other day was born one plant Lotah Bih x Leopard. But I can't say that this is really it. Because I was unable to remove the stamens from the maternal plant. We will later see that managed. Today I want to show two other plants. And, I think, they are really C. frutescens. CAP 926 The flowers are greenish and located at an acute angle down. The fruits are stick out vertically, but as they grow, the petioles bend over from the weight. Unfortunately, fruits didn't manage to ripen to a frost. But I liked this plant. Flowers were pretty, are a little similar to campanulas. Pili Pili from Uganda (C. frutescens) All the characteristics of this plant is absolutely typical of C. frutescens. It was difficult to be photographed, flowers and fruit very small. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Geez 282 Posted November 26, 2015 My varieties C. baccatum in 2015.Peruviano Arancio (C. baccatum) -I liked it. Very juicy and flavorful, with medium heat. And this is a very productive variety.El Oro de Ecuador \ PI 585244 (C. baccatum) -Also very juicy and tasty. Its taste slightly reminded me taste of a carambola, but with medium heat.Aji Valle de Canca \ CAP 832 (C. baccatum)I think that this variety very unpretentious and easy for cultivation, and very productive. The quite tasty, with medium heat.Blondy (C. baccatum) -Nice variety, especially in the sun. Very hot (more than the other baccatums). But I didn't understand, in what time it is optimum mature. Its color almost didn't change with time. Aji Catalan (C. baccatum) -Very nice and large fruits with good sweet taste. Sharpness comes with a small delay. At first it seems very sweet, and then very hot. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Geez 282 Posted November 29, 2015 My varieties C. annuuum in 2015. Cantina (C. annuum) - Kitchenpepper Peach (C. annuum) - Monkey Face (C. annuum) - Gdjwari Put (C. annuum) - Rawit ( C. annuum) - Guindilla Larga (C. annuum) - Riot (C. annuum) - PI 370006 (C. annuum) - CGN 16941 (C. annuum) - And finally Jalapeño (C. annuum) and Jalapeño Craig's Grande (C. annuum) 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
joefish 4,894 Posted November 29, 2015 Your plants, fruits and pictures are wonderful as always. It's really great to have you in this forum!! Peppe 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Luigi Lombardi 635 Posted November 30, 2015 Beautiful plants! 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Geez 282 Posted December 2, 2015 This year I met with C. annuum var glabriusculum. I planted one variety because I wanted to see and study this species. But later I saw that I have not one, but three plants. Through to information from this forum, I concluded that two my varieties C. annuum are var. glabriusculum too. In addition , I unexpectedly "fell in love" with these plants. Today I want to talk about them, and learn your opinions about whether or not they are C. annuum var glabriusculum (especially No. 3 ).1. Chilito de Simojovel / PI 566812 (C. annuum var glabriusculum), my firstling. No doubts in it, the species is confirmed by all sources.(cage = 5 х 5mm)For the first time I saw that fruits can fall down from a plant. It occurred when there was a strong wind or a rain, and also when fruits were very mature. It was interesting and unusual.2. Piquin (C. annuum var glabriusculum). This plant isn't similar to the previous at all. But, when the matured fruits began to fall downwards... it was cause for reflection. 3. Guindilla Venezolana (C. annuum var glabriusculum). This plant intrigued me because information about it was absent. I knew only the name and the country of origin, Venezuela.At first my plant was very similar on its venezuelan relative, Goats Weed. Also very hairy plant with peaked leaves. But similarity ended after emergence of fruits. Fruits aren't black, and also fall after maturing.I am sure that this variety is C. annuum var glabriusculum. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rapace 9,624 Posted December 4, 2015 Hi Gala, I have some (serious) doubt about Piquin..... the "Piquin" pods I know are smaller and the shape different. The plant you pictured seems to me a "standard" Capsicum Annuum Waiting for other opinions 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
leonidas 2,170 Posted December 5, 2015 WOW...very good topic!!! P.S.: I love El oro de Ecuador Leonida 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Geez 282 Posted December 5, 2015 Grazie mille Hi Gala, I have some (serious) doubt about Piquin..... the "Piquin" pods I know are smaller and the shape different. The plant you pictured seems to me a "standard" Capsicum Annuum Waiting for other opinions When my Piquin yielded the first fruits, it was normal. The fruits had the size up to 2 cm and grew vertically up. And then the bush expanded, and everything became as on a photo. The fruits are 2.5 to 3 cm long and hang down. But the main characteristics remained invariable:mature fruits are soft and always fall. Of course I can't be sure that my plant is Piquin (C. annuum var. glabriusculum) Also I can't disprove this. Being guided by information from the Internet, I assume that there are many various Piquin (and just as there are many various Tepin and Bird pepper). And depending on the region, these plants have various features. For example, in the article Capsicum annuum_bird pepper it is written about Birds pepper : " The leaves are dark green, ovate to lanciolate, 4 to 15 cm long, with petioles 0.5 to 3 cm long. The fruits, which are ellipsoidal berries with thin flesh, are 0.4 to 3 cm long (usually about 0.8 cm in wild plants) and red or orange-red. The variety growing as a shrub in wildland vegetation in Puerto Rico, Florida, and elsewhere is C. annuum var. glabriusculum (Dunal) H. Pickersgill (Liogier 1995)." It is possible that I am mistaken... Waiting for other opinions Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rapace 9,624 Posted December 5, 2015 My impression is that about this name ("Piquin" or "Pequin") and also about "Bird Peppers" there is some kind of "confusion".As far as I know (but i can be wrong as well ) Tepin is a synonimous of "Chiltepin". Probably "Piquin" (and "Bird Pepper" as well) indicates a "family" which includes a set of different varieties..... Me too... I'm waiting for more opinions Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Geez 282 Posted December 8, 2015 I think, "Bird pepper" is the shared name of group of different wild pepper varieties which have liittle red pods and grow in central America and surrounding area.Varieties with round fruits called "Tepin" and varieties with oval fruits called "Piquin". And there are many local names... Ah max, Amashito, Amomo, Bird Pepper, Bird's Eye, Birdseye, Bola, Bolita, Chile amash, Chile amashito, Chile Chiapas, Chile de monte, Chile mosquito, Chile parado, Chile Pequin, Chile Petin, Chile Piquín, Chile Tepin, Chilillo, Chilpaya, Chilpayita, Chiltepin, Chiltepiquin, Chiltepito, Diente de tlacuache, Gachupín, Gringo Killer, Mashito, Mosquito, Pájaro pequeño, Parado, Pico de pájaro, Pico de paloma, Tempichile, Ululte, Urchili Timpinchile, Vogelaugenchili, Wilder Chili, and dozens of others names... Moreover, in different regions the same varieties have different names and can be have the same names for different varieties. So, "confusion" is logical... And I`m sure, that not all varieties is an C. annuum var. glabriusculum. Many varieties can be normal C. annuum. For example, this year I grew very interesting variety of Mexican native.Region, size and color of fruits is an inherent... but it`s the normal C. annuum. Fruits aren`t soft and tear with some efforts.Without results, I search in the Internet similar plants.... For me, uniqueness of this varietiy appearing that in warm weather, flowers were absolutly white. But when became cold, flowers received lilac color! I often watched the fruit at low temperatures produce anthocyanin pigments, but I never seen similar changes of flowers color. Some photos of flowers.... Ojo de Lobo (C. annuum) 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
